valley won't be based on drifting, but rather on no-drifting.

That would suck!
I'm still waiting for a racing game that has believable under- or over- steering. At the very least enjoyable. You throw yourself into a turn, the back goes out, but you keep running, steering against it... ooohhh, how I love that.

Anyway, thanks for the let down, space!

TM2 needs a noslide environment, or else many of the old timer tmuf players may never return ever again, which would be quite sad to lose their immense talents. All the new players need it to learn diverse driving skills.

Noslide has its own skillset. And we're not talking about about noslide like it is in Canyon or Stadium, where the car feels like its on rails and will never slide unless you force it to. The kind of noslide we mean is like Rally, Coast, or to some extent Island, where the car wants to slide out on almost every turn, especially if you go fullspeed and turn full boar. The skill is in finding the maximum amount of turning you can do for any given situation, and then executing a noslide turn to maximize your speed through the turn. It's immensely satisfying to get that sort of control and understanding over the physics, and allows you to set some incredible times on maps. It often favors analog drivers over digital ones, and that's okay.

And that's the noslide that people miss from Canyon and Stadium. And I think... if it's not there in Valley, many will probably never try another TM2 environment ever again, because for some people it's the preferred way to drive tracks and in their opinion... it has a much higher skill ceiling than slide environments.

For the rest of us, we need a noslide environment simply for the diversity it will bring the game.

I really hope Valley provides that for us.

I'm sure there is a sweet spot of sorts, where the natural logic becomes the challenge to deal with, but which provides sensational fun as driving experience, almost like a simulation, really. I remember GT, for example, which was way too damn hard as it was aspiring to be a simulation. Maybe I have to finally do it and write my own racer only to find out what I'm hoping for. Canyon is so damn close. Of course, I'd really like to have more adequate crashes, too, hehe. I mean, it's always bizarre to drive with 500 against some guard rail and just stop. That feels literally stupid.
Anyway, anyway, anyway... I didn't know TM before Canyon and bought it simply for its beauty, really, and fairly pleasant driving feeling. SO, I wonder, if Nadeo wants to get a bigger market or is happy enough to satisfy the existing enthusiasts. I also wonder, if a truly brilliant racer with the gorgeous looks of TM would not simply win everybody over? Ah well...

TM has always been and probably always will be an "arcade racer". It's not about being realistic, but about having fun.

At the same time, Nadeo has made the game visually look more and more realistic over the past 9 years... and it gets closer and closer... especially with TM2. But if the gameplay itself were to ever become too realistic then I think they'd lose a good chunk of their fanbase and the game would probably lose its charm.

I guess some of those things you get used to, like hitting a wall at 500kph and stopping suddenly.

I realize you're new to TM, because I've never seen you around. And that's why I explained noslide in a bit more detail, because I fear some of the newer players who just joined the game via Canyon may not know what we mean when we say noslide or no-drift. It's a lot more complex than it sounds.

But gogo make your own game! It's awesome you have all these ideas!

Oh, I forgot to thank you for the noslide explanation! THANKS! Yeah, it is confusing to see such believable graphics, yet, arcade like behavior. But that is stunningly appealing. I don't know how to express properly what I'm talking about, which is why I have to try making it. I think all simulations thus far have never translated the ease of driving we experience, when we actually drive our cars. They seem to forget that few people have wheel controllers and pedals, haha, but are either on keyboard or gamepad. TM2 knows that full well and kind of gets that exact problem nearly solved. I guess, I'm hoping for the last bit of evolution that truly marries the worlds of reality and game in a natural way. They are, as I said, almost there already!
Last night I made a track ("tArO-Coaster01 by   Taronium) that embodies part of the pure joy I experience in Canyon. I love such speed and that sense of flight that has nothing much to do with reality. It shows how you sort of partner up with the machine, controlling behavior and knowing when to let go so it does its thing. In Stadium it does not feel that way, because of the tire-glue (as I call it). Feels like you have to do everything there. In Canyon you almost find that sweet spot...eh...no matter, I said it all already, I think. (...by the way, this map really plays quite well in Stadium, too).

Anyway, I get it, I think. I just still can't get myself to really enjoy Stadium and am hoping Valley evolves the Canyon direction a bit more. But we shall see... damn I can't wait!

Thanks again! One day I'll be a TM veteran, too, hehehe...

That's one cool car design for this environment. It's like they took a Mini and gave it steroids!

And the look of the environment just looks pleasant. Nadeo is doing a good job on it.

This message has no relation to what might have been said above but i just wanted to express my annoyment towards Nadeo.
They have been teasing the community for several years now with ground breaking new features like block import, "custom" lighting of tracks, scripts and other things i forgot, and what do we get ? The track editor still has the same annoying block placement limitations, Canyon cliffs are a pain in the ass to use, the track lighting is still a problem in several places where you don't want to use platform type blocks (mainly off road parts), there hasn't been a block import feature for the past (almost) two years, the scripting stuff is totally not user friendly and remains a feature only usable by people who have the time and patience to have a look at it, etc... Not to mention that Canyon is nothing but a desert environment with good graphics, which is actually the only useful improvement from the previous trackmania.
I've been thinking during many years that Nadeo games deserved to be bought instead of pirated because they were made by passionate guys who care more about doing a sweet game than about the money that they'll earn, and sold for a honest price, unlike call of duty, NFS, Fifa and other shit games like this, but since i spent 20€ in shootmania (a complete shit, let's be honest) i've definatly decided to crack all the following environments.

Virus says:
This message has no relation to what might have been said above but i just wanted to express my annoyment towards Nadeo.
They have been teasing the community for several years now with ground breaking new features like block import, "custom" lighting of tracks, scripts and other things i forgot, and what do we get ? The track editor still has the same annoying block placement limitations, Canyon cliffs are a pain in the ass to use, the track lighting is still a problem in several places where you don't want to use platform type blocks (mainly off road parts), there hasn't been a block import feature for the past (almost) two years, the scripting stuff is totally not user friendly and remains a feature only usable by people who have the time and patience to have a look at it, etc... Not to mention that Canyon is nothing but a desert environment with good graphics, which is actually the only useful improvement from the previous trackmania.
I've been thinking during many years that Nadeo games deserved to be bought instead of pirated because they were made by passionate guys who care more about doing a sweet game than about the money that they'll earn, and sold for a honest price, unlike call of duty, NFS, Fifa and other shit games like this, but since i spent 20€ in shootmania (a complete shit, let's be honest) i've definatly decided to crack all the following environments.

Did you know that in the 80's a normal video game costed what would be around 50 euros (would be around 100-150 euros in todays money). Games didn't take longer than a year to develop and lasted 3-4 hours or so.

Today, normal games cost around 50-60 euros, take 3 years to develop with far more staff on top of that and people complain if they last less than 10 hours.

Canyon costs 20 euros and even though I don't think I play it much, I'm almost at 200 hours play time atm.

Making games is not often a profitable business, it is sad that you have such a bad attitude. Nadeo is surely not a big game company and I doubt they bring in so much money with these long development times and cheap (even free) games.

And no, your loss of 20 euro for shootmania is hardly a big one, you were even given options to try full version free (I still havent bought it but can play). So if you dont like shootmania, maybe you shouldn't have bought it.

Grow up.

I bought it the day it came out, there was no trial version. Grown up people don't talk about what they don't know.