I tought about this and Its only "1 IP" per award
all award = allowed "exept same ip"
I dont think anyone use multi account, but i meight be wrong
but i think its unessesery to have ip tracking
only use it for police matter. imho
but i dont think any murder will happen on this site.
@Nesrally
your gf ,,,, have to go to a library and login and award if she really want to give you the award. so there is ways
and there you have it and hear how stupid this system is.,,,, its my 5cent.

but iam not the whole community.
haha Space^^ my first tought when i read Forzyy´s comment..to..

SPIDER (207) says:
I tought about this and Its only "1 IP" per award
all award = allowed "exept same ip"
I dont think anyone use multi account, but i meight be wrong
but i think its unessesery to have ip tracking
only use it for police matter. imho
but i dont think any murder will happen on this site.
@Nesrally
your gf ,,,, have to go to a library and login and award if she really want to give you the award. so there is ways
and there you have it and hear how stupid this system is.,,,, its my 5cent.

but iam not the whole community.
haha Space^^ my first tought when i read Forzyy´s comment..to..

Yes, i agree in this, that no murder will happen here if the track of our friends and relatives will get many awards. If i can award the track of Nesrally by using just another computer or IP then this system really doesnt make any sense.

And the message from forzyy to Nesrally seems to implicate that I trying to do a criminal actions when i tried to award Nesrally's track, because he says " PLEASE DONT CHEAT THE SYSTEM. IF WE FIND THAT RHONA CONTINUES TO TRY AND AWARD YOUR TRACKS, THERE WILL BE SEVERE PUNISHMENTS... LET THIS BE A WARNING TO YOU " ... I never know that there is rules about giving awards, so i tried and tried to award it and the system took it as cheating. He should be nice answering the questions or concerns of his racers here, to make everyone that has concerns about this community understand. Because that kind of answers appears to be a bit hostile and not friendly.

eyebo (701) says:

Actually it was a problem we had to deal with almost every day, and it continues to be an issue, especially on TMX NF.

Sorry eyebo, I don't know what is TMX NF, but I know what is TMX, coz I raced there almost every day for more than a year, and my friends and family uploading and awarding tracks there all the times, without ever meet this issue...and I personally observing other racers doing it all the times, without ever reflecting upon it as a potential cheat. In TMNF, after all, we could, if we liked it, have as many account as we liked to, coz it was, in opposite to canyon, a free game.... So, if they ever had a system to detect same IP to avoid these, they could easily do, and would do, I suppose, if that was a problem....

eyebo (701) says:
And you are wrong about awards. They do add value to a track in that they have the power to increase it's exposure to a wider audience. Artificially inflating that exposure by awarding your own tracks is seen as a form of cheating.

plz don't be like that eyebo... u could, if u wanted to, easily understand that I pointing to the actual track value here, the one that u can add as a search option when u search for a track....... not the added "value" by the increasing value the exposure to a wider audience eventually might give....... And anyway, the issue here is how awards from family or friends is strictly forbidden, and replays allowed, when replays, who actually are increasing, by definitions, a tracks value, are not, from the same IP...... Replays adds actual value, award adds "exposure value".. whats the difference ?

eyebo (701) says:

Of course your neighbors and second cousins can award your tracks. If you actually got everyone you know to play TM, that's quite an achievement anyway I'd say.

By saying so, r u implicating that cousins, kids and grand kids can not?....

eyebo (701) says:
If you actually got everyone you know to play TM, that's quite an achievement anyway I'd say.

Yes, I actually try to do... coz I love this game that much, playing all day long, and having everyone I know see that, is not that hard at all... my GF, her brother, her daughter, her cousin, my kids, my grand kids, other friends visiting me, a.s.o, all see me as an addicted trackmania racer, and I`m not ashamed of showing them, and, I post on Facebook about it, I talk and demonstrate about it when I have visitors, to the extent that they telling me like ; "u r crazy"..... which should make nadeo and MX proud of me, and not, as I feel it sometimes, blaming me for being negative, coz I speak my mind and bringing stuff up to debates....

eyebo (701) says:
It's about your location. We simply disallow accounts that are all under one roof to award other accounts under that same roof. There's no way we can tell the difference between a single individual awarding his own tracks or another actual human doing it.

Well, that hits me in my "beer"belly, coz I happened to live in a country where having a computer is a luxury... Here, we have two computers, coz I . as a foreigner, can afford it... but all the other people around her cannot afford to have they're own PC... so they go here in my little internet cafe and race ! ! ! In TMNF, and TMX, coz , after all, that's a free game, this issue is never a problem...They race, they enjoy, they open an account in TMX, they upload tracks and award tracks to they're friends, a.s.o.....But they r usually looking with big jealousy to me racing canyon, and they want also to race there...... so I put up a kind of an "award"... if u can beat my time in this track, I buy u a canyon account..... and Rhona`s daughter did it in a track, so now I have to buy her a canyon ! But after this, its not so funny, coz, in TMX, when she races, or uploading her tracks, she is very much happy to see me, rhona, or her uncle awarding her tracks a.s.o.....but here, she cannot, coz, we are under one roof ! I am sorry, she is sorry, Rhona is sorry, her uncle gongracer is sorry, we are all sorry ! ! ! ! !

sorry for offtopic, but how old are you?

Like my son said to a man coming in to his bed a night he visit, and asking him; "how old are you?" and he answered; I`M NOT OLD ! ! ! ! ....Heheheh......he was only like 5 y.o that time.....hehehe, I`m 53, running 54 this coming may 1... could probably be ur father after all I know..... But, as kind of giving "a father to son" advice; if u have "of topic" question like that, just click on the head u see in front of the nick, and u can see for ur self......

rather someone between father and grandfather ^^

Hehe, never heard about anything being "between father and grandfather" .......

(bare in mind i didn't really read the whole thing)

so... friendly awarders are just fine, but cheating awards isn't... Think about it, is there really any difference between them?

Dynamic IP. If I wanted I'd give myself 50 awards.

Nesrally, you bring up a good points why the system is flawed. I'm not in a position to change or fix it, but I share your concerns frustration.

I think what has happened is that we've taken a single type of use and designed this system of IP checking around it. We (that is the team who designed it) assumed there would be only one legitimate driver per household, especially on a paid game such as Canyon. But that simply isn't true.

The question is, should the experience of legitimate users be diminished simply to protect the game from some possible cheaters?

This issue is sort of on par with the entire issue about DRM (Digital Rights Management) in software, music, and videos. It's an issue that's been raging on for years.

I think it's understood by most that it's not really in anyone's best interest to diminish the experience of the majority of users just to protect yourself from a few possible cheaters.

Nesrally says:
Sorry eyebo, I don't know what is TMX NF,

TMX NF is tmnforever.tm-exchange.com. It's TrackMania Exchange for Nations Forever, the free game. Sorry to use acronyms.

Nesrally says:
I raced there almost every day for more than a year, and my friends and family uploading and awarding tracks there all the times, without ever meet this issue...and I personally observing other racers doing it all the times, without ever reflecting upon it as a potential cheat.

Well yeah, a lot of people did it. A lot of factors were considered when seeing if someone was cheating the system, like who they were awarding overall, if they posted their own tracks, what IP they were on, etc. It wasn't any single thing. Apparantly your uses never raised any red flags, and thus you were never confronted by the moderators. Trust me though, plenty of users are on a nearly daily basis. And there are people who quite blatantly try to cheat the system.

A case that springs to my mind is a user who awarded every track in the recently uploaded tracks along with his own tracks. He hadn't even downloaded any of the tracks with that account, and all his awards were written exactly the same. This stuff goes on all the time unfortunately.

Nesrally says:
So, if they ever had a system to detect same IP to avoid these, they could easily do, and would do, I suppose, if that was a problem....

We do have that capability on TMX of course. But it's only used when cheating is suspected. We don't check every single user who posts an award.

Nesrally says:
u could, if u wanted to, easily understand that I pointing to the actual track value here, the one that u can add as a search option when u search for a track

The fact that this is an issue in our little conversation makes me smile. I'm actually in a track building team called Lazy Trackers and our motto has been for a long time "Awards don't make the track". It means that awards really have nothing to do with how good the track actually is and don't relieve you of your responsibility to make a really good track. People, especially in the popular tracking clans, used to be very concerned and focused on how many awards they got and did whatever they could to increase the award count. The adoption of that motto was a way for us to fight back against that mentality and focus once again on the tracks themselves.

So I think I know what you're talking about. Surely I see your point about replays having more value. They show which tracks are the most hard fought and this directly relates to a track's addictiveness to drive.

eyebo says:
Of course your neighbors and second cousins can award your tracks. If you actually got everyone you know to play TM, that's quite an achievement anyway I'd say.

Nesrally says:
By saying so, r u implicating that cousins, kids and grand kids can not?....

No. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so specific. I'm of the belief that anyone should be able to award your tracks, even your own mother, who is probably the most prejudice (in a good way) about the things you make.

It's of note that we do currently have a rule against friends and family awarding your tracks. I just don't personally share a belief that that rule should exist.

Nesrally says:
...I love this game that much, playing all day long, and having everyone I know see that, is not that hard at all... my GF, her brother, her daughter, her cousin, my kids, my grand kids, other friends visiting me, a.s.o, all see me as an addicted trackmania racer, and I`m not ashamed of showing them, and, I post on Facebook about it, I talk and demonstrate about it when I have visitors, to the extent that they telling me like ; "u r crazy"..... which should make nadeo and MX proud of me, and not, as I feel it sometimes, blaming me for being negative, coz I speak my mind and bringing stuff up to debates....

Well, until now, I don't think anyone knew that of you. I certainly didn't. I think a certain amount of healthy debate about topics is good, as long as it stays constructive and it doesn't go in circles too many times.

I think some of the moderators are probably burned out from dealing with so many hundreds (maybe thousands) of users in the past that were cheating that we find it too easy to see everyone as a conniving little cheater, and perhaps we've stopped giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Certainly that's very bad. I don't think it is true for every case, but perhaps we're sometimes a little too quick to reach a judgement without sufficient facts.

Nesrally says:
so I put up a kind of an "award"... if u can beat my time in this track, I buy u a canyon account..... and Rhona`s daughter did it in a track, so now I have to buy her a canyon !

That's too cool!!!

Nesrally says:
But after this, its not so funny, coz, in TMX, when she races, or uploading her tracks, she is very much happy to see me, rhona, or her uncle awarding her tracks a.s.o.....but here, she cannot, coz, we are under one roof !

Yeah...

Nesrally says:
I am sorry, she is sorry, Rhona is sorry, her uncle gongracer is sorry, we are all sorry ! ! ! ! !

You really have nothing to be sorry about. It's us that should be sorry.

I'm not sure if anything will change, but I sympathize with you, and with anyone else who shares a computer with family and friends, especially in places where everyone can't afford their own PC, let alone a PC that can run Canyon.

Rhona says:
He (Forzyy) should be nice answering the questions or concerns of his racers here, to make everyone that has concerns about this community understand. Because that kind of answers appears to be a bit hostile and not friendly.

You're of course 100% right. And considering he's also a Global Moderator on the ManiaPlanet forums... I would have expected that he would have more decorum when talking to users, even if he has a legitimate concern about your use of the award system.

So I'm sorry that one of the crew has soured your experience here a little.

I won't apologize for his comment though. He'll have to do that himself.

SPIDER says:
your gf ,,,, have to go to a library and login and award if she really want to give you the award.

Enai Siaion says:
Dynamic IP. If I wanted I'd give myself 50 awards.

No, that won't work either. IPs are logged and the fact both accounts have shared IPs in the past means they'll never be able to award each other. Of course there's still ways to get around the system using proxies and stuff.

This topic gives me a stomach ache... or maybe I just need to eat.
I think I'll go get some breakfast.