If botw is purely based on the rating, and not awards, then you'll get a bunch of tracks that have 1 rating of 5 stars ... there would have to be some combination of stars and awards, at least

so just let be in botw with at least 5 (10/etc.) ratings. even if they'll be just friendly ratings, ppl will try this track (as it's in botw) and give it lower rating => it's out of botw => justice done.

SkunkY says:


There are several problems though.
At least as much as some authors use their friends to award their tracks they will use their friends to give top ratings.
What's the result?

1.
The botw will be full of 5 star tracks. There will be no difference. The first 20, maybe 40, maybe 50 tracks will have a rating of 5. In fact, I foresee only new tracks in the botw with 1-5 ratings.
The more votes a track gets the more it will become 'average', something between 2 and 4. So while a track gets more votes it will go down in the top list.

2.
Because of friendly votes the botw will be full of shit tracks that just got friendly votes.
Of course it will be put into perspective with more votes but they got into the botw in the first place and what the player gets is a top-list full of shit.
So the botw will be of no reliance.

Now if you regulate this by letting the votes count only after a certain number of votes then you have changed nothing - you have the same problem that you want to get rid of - the unknown authors will not get enough votes to get into the botw.

That's why a botw based on the rating makes no sense.

No. Because a track with rating 5/10 (rating 0 to 5/ number of votes) is NOT the same that a track with 5/100.
Of course, if the first votes are friendly votes, the track will go up in a few minutes, but when is on the top, a lot of players will try this track, and will rate it, so in some time it will go to his deserved place. (If it was over-rated it will go down, but if it was a nice track it will stay).
With award system, when a track goes up because of friendly votes, it stays on top. Don't forgive awards are a EXPONENTIAL system: This mean, the more award the track have, the more oportunity to recive more awards... In the end we can see this:
Link to most awarded tracks in TMNF X (Best example)
The top of the list is totally blocked by the own award system. You can check this list next month, or next year, and it will stay almost the same. What happened here?
Look at first track 741 awards, second 407, third 326... If you upload now a track it's almost imposible to fight with the top, even if you upload the best track builded in the world. This site is blocked. Awards can't be used to looking for a nice track, because you always get the same results.... When you hit the top, this exponential system will give you more and more awards... And is mathematical imposible to make a "better" track.
Now look at the top awarded racks in this site: You can see the same pattern. With less awards, of course... But you just have to check the growing rhythm of awards to see that. I bet Ganjarider with his track will be in the top for a very very long time... Every time more far away from others. Ganja did a nice track, (I don't mean he don't deserve his place) But question is: Did Ganja the PERFECT track wich can't be overpassed never again? (If it remains on top for a few month it will be untochable)
With a rating system (NON EXPONENTIAL) the top will became dinamic: We would see new tracks every day, "fighting" with the clasic tracks, all tracks going up and down... And the user will have the feeling that his vote REALLY counts.

Again, when you let the rating count after 5 or 10 ratings then unknown authors have no benefit.
When you let them in immediatly then the botw is not worth a cent. Tracks get in even though they're shit, even if they fall out after more ratings, they've been in there and you can't differ from friendly or real rating.
Even if a rating was honest, it might be the only one who thought so and most other players find it poor - it was in the best of the week.. and plenty other tracks that are shit would appear there and would have to be outrated.. the botw would be just as good as searching for random tracks = bullshit.

The rating system does not really help unknown authors anyway. Most tracks never get any awards. Why do you think they would suddenly get top ratings? The problem is that too many tracks never get downloaded or awarded. They wouldn't get downloaded within a rating system either. And they wouldn't get a top rating either, otherwise they would have gotten awards, too.

You can always download random tracks or tracks that are in the 'Recently Awarded Tracks' box.
When everyone can get into the botw list easily then it's just nothing special anymore.

Therefor the award system is just as good if not better than a rating system to tell you download an enjoyable track.
When 10 or more players awarded a track chances are pretty low it's shit.

And a track with 5 top ratings is not necessarily brilliant either.

The more ratings a track gets the less extreme the average voting will be. A track with 100 votes will NEVER have a rating near 5.
A track with 5 ratings = much more likely to have an average rating of 5.
The track with 100 ratings will have no chance to be in the top of the week even though it might be the best track of the week by far.

Top list based on number of players who enjoyed = Yes!
Top list based on rating = No!

Edit: Oh comon, stop complaining about All Time Favorites. That's of no interest. That's the downside of the award system if you will but it doesn't affect the botw in any way.
And Forzyy is working on a search function for best of the year. Maybe even more detailed. Then you get the old classics outfiltered.

why all of you want to help unknown authors so much? ._.

ok lets see if we can organise this thread into a constructive tool.
lets talk terms first.
can we all agree that:

AWARD: given to show approval of a track for any reason from technical excellence to supporting a friend.
RATING: a rating purely denotes your opinion of a tracks technical, artistic and enjoyment level and should be scored objectively regardless of links to the builder or community opinion.

sound good?

I don't care to reply here anymore because it doesn't seem like people are reading other people's posts and instead are trying incorporate their own opinion. Which leads to chaos because we're not arguing against anyone.

I might come back when people are sensible again though.

Space says:
why all of you want to help unknown authors so much? ._.

Because that was a huge downfall of the previous system; many people who built what users would consider good tracks, but never got the proper attention. I think people are trying to minimize that.

scala says:
ok lets see if we can organise this thread into a constructive tool.
lets talk terms first.
can we all agree that:

AWARD: given to show approval of a track for any reason from technical excellence to supporting a friend.
RATING: a rating purely denotes your opinion of a tracks technical, artistic and enjoyment level and should be scored objectively regardless of links to the builder or community opinion.

sound good?

It doesn't.
The idea of awards is to give one when you enjoyed a track for whatever reason, not to support friends.
While it gets abused in that way by some players the exact same thing will happen in the rating system.

Award: Give one to a track you enjoyed, regardless of links to the builder or community opinion.
Rating: Your oppinion of a tracks quality, regardless of links to the builder or community opinion.

@eie
I have read all post, and try to make a point with my comments.
and i think more do that, this is a pretty hot discusion and very important for mx.

And to get more people to join this site and build tracks and have alot of fun.

facts: You don´t bake a cake for 10 person and you are the only one that eat it, or maybe you do but its useless to bake the cake, If no one want to taste it, but there is a few that bake for fun also.